Catalyst Records

Catalyst Records Discussion Forum
It is currently Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:19 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Portland, OR
Micah wrote:
Fair enough. If you keep it to just disliking me then that's 100% kosher in my book. You bring up my kids and i really will threaten you (as opposed to you pretending i threatened to kill you). i'm not going to argue with you over the fact that i never threatened to kill you (because if i was going to kill someone i wouldn't make threats about it like Vegan Straight Edgers are so used to from rhetorical music). If you would have said i threatened to fight you then i'd give you that. You look vaguely familiar. i may have seen you at a show and gotten into it with you. But i certainly never threatened to kill you. Whatever though, obviously it was a traumatizing experience for you, and i know how people can exaggerate. No harm, no foul as far as i'm concerned.

So yes, if i "bring this on myself" by being friends with someone (this is actually what you said), then so be it. Obviously you are impressed with Dave. He's your best friend even. What else would i expect from his best friend? Most folks from way back are not (and that goes for all those who don't tell him how they really feel, who i'm not going to drag into this by name).

In any event, i'm happy you posted because it highlights the fact that i don't give two shits if someone likes me or not, or thinks i think weird, eccentric things or not. That's your right man. You keep slander out of it and we're straight.



I have known David for a good while, albeit not as long as you. Going on 7 years now, if there is anything I know about the way he acts its that most of the time he pisses
people it's because hes not afraid to call them on their bullshit. I am not referring to this particular thread by any means, simply Davids character. Normally someone calling
someone else out annoys the fuck out of me, but David walks the walk. We need more people like him not less. I went back over this thread, and I will agree with you
that the comment about what you said about your kids was pretty gossipy. However, he was talking about something YOU had supposedly said about your kids. He
was not talking about your kids. In all fairness, if you're going to make yourself such a public figure, and make your views such as they are well known. Crazy stories about
things you may or may not have said should be the norm. Are you really going to run around the internet threatening everyone who does such a thing? To be frank,
you are fun to talk about, and I have heard it happen on a number of occasions. If you were a private person who kept to themselves I would think it was wrong, but you're not.
You put yourself out there, and this unfortunately comes with the territory. You know, as much as David and I are not crazy about you, or your views, he and I both stuck
up for your right to speak at T.L. Fest. Maybe you should keep that in mind, he has stuck up for you as well. For the record, B.J. and J.C. are hardly the best examples. The are
plenty of things that should be said about Courage Crew, and J.C. is known for being a hot head towards people who say such things. As far as Peter is concerned, I hate to use this
analogy but you're sort of beating a dead horse on that one here. That has run its course, and people have made up their minds. Peters reputation is hardly stellar at this point
but I won't get into that either.

_________________
unity within the "scene" is a contradiction. i don't unite with what i despise. don't go along, i won't get along in this united scene dream. i won't pretend to care and waste my time, waste my time on you.

http://www.myspace.com/xveganjihadx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
Good reply, now we're getting somewhere. i like numbering things out in replies. Please bear with my repeated use of lists. i think it helps:

1. Dave calls people out, but he equally buts into their business. This was the case with BJ. BJ never did anything to Dave yet Dave never shut up about how BJ ate refined sugar. Sean eats refined sugar but that didn't seem to get the same reaction out of Dave. Instead BJ constantly got shit for it from Dave, who couldn't seem to shut up about it. The levee eventually broke and BJ wanted to kick his ass after literally a year of this bullshit, living in the same city with Dave.

2. If Dave stuck to calling people on ACTUAL bullshit then that would be one thing. But slandering someone and gossiping about hearsay is another issue altogether. If Dave wants to talk about Biogenesis and say it is a crazy book for documenting references to extraterrestrials in ancient World Scriptures, then that's fine by me. i presume that this will be most peoples' reaction. Strangely, however, outside of weird subcultures like this, no one seems to think it is anything other than an eccentric point of view. i teach many run of the mill, every day folks, and have shared the book with even more. But if Dave is sure that it's a crazy book (without having read it), then that's his right and i would never try to stifle discussion about this.

3. Talking about psychologically fucked claims about a person towards their children is as wrong as if i accused Dave of physically abusing the autistic children he works with. While such a claim would be about HIM and not said autistic children, it would be offensive because it would be related to his interaction with "off limits" individuals. This is no different than him bringing claims of psychological abuse into a discussion of myself and my children. You seem to be honest enough to recognize that this was fucked up. All i want is the apology that Dave promised he would give if i denied the slander he posted. i've denied it, and he still will not give a straight forward apology.

4. Peter's reputation is solid amongst anyone i have heard speak of him (aside from the FBI). Interestingly, though i've never met Peter, the FBI asked me about him. There are only two people who are "famous" in any Activist or Revolutionary circle that the Feds never asked me about. One is in the 9.11 Commission Report and continues to be free in spite of the Commission making some serious accusations against him. The other is Dave. The Feds knew i knew both people, yet then never asked me about either. While this does not mean that either party is working for the Feds, it does mean that the Feds are not concerned with either; that both are in a sense benefiting their agenda and thus they are left more or less alone (yes the other character did a few months of time on petty charges as well... but never anything related to the 9.11 Commission accusations... the cases are more or less parallel).

5. If i'm "fun" to talk about, perhaps you should get a new hobby. Seriously. You say i am a "public" figure, but no more public than anyone else. You talk as though i am famous. i am just a guy who has posted some writings on the internet. By this standard, hundreds of millions of blog writers should expect to be slandered. Thankfully, most people do not see eye to eye with you, Dave and various gossipy members of the hardcore scene on this matter.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Portland, OR
Micah wrote:
Good reply, now we're getting somewhere. i like numbering things out in replies. Please bear with my repeated use of lists. i think it helps:

1. Dave calls people out, but he equally buts into their business. This was the case with BJ. BJ never did anything to Dave yet Dave never shut up about how BJ ate refined sugar. Sean eats refined sugar but that didn't seem to get the same reaction out of Dave. Instead BJ constantly got shit for it from Dave, who couldn't seem to shut up about it. The levee eventually broke and BJ wanted to kick his ass after literally a year of this bullshit, living in the same city with Dave.

2. If Dave stuck to calling people on ACTUAL bullshit then that would be one thing. But slandering someone and gossiping about hearsay is another issue altogether. If Dave wants to talk about Biogenesis and say it is a crazy book for documenting references to extraterrestrials in ancient World Scriptures, then that's fine by me. i presume that this will be most peoples' reaction. Strangely, however, outside of weird subcultures like this, no one seems to think it is anything other than an eccentric point of view. i teach many run of the mill, every day folks, and have shared the book with even more. But if Dave is sure that it's a crazy book (without having read it), then that's his right and i would never try to stifle discussion about this.

3. Talking about psychologically fucked claims about a person towards their children is as wrong as if i accused Dave of physically abusing the autistic children he works with. While such a claim would be about HIM and not said autistic children, it would be offensive because it would be related to his interaction with "off limits" individuals. This is no different than him bringing claims of psychological abuse into a discussion of myself and my children. You seem to be honest enough to recognize that this was fucked up. All i want is the apology that Dave promised he would give if i denied the slander he posted. i've denied it, and he still will not give a straight forward apology.

4. Peter's reputation is solid amongst anyone i have heard speak of him (aside from the FBI). Interestingly, though i've never met Peter, the FBI asked me about him. There are only two people who are "famous" in any Activist or Revolutionary circle that the Feds never asked me about. One is in the 9.11 Commission Report and continues to be free in spite of the Commission making some serious accusations against him. The other is Dave. The Feds knew i knew both people, yet then never asked me about either. While this does not mean that either party is working for the Feds, it does mean that the Feds are not concerned with either; that both are in a sense benefiting their agenda and thus they are left more or less alone (yes the other character did a few months of time on petty charges as well... but never anything related to the 9.11 Commission accusations... the cases are more or less parallel).

5. If i'm "fun" to talk about, perhaps you should get a new hobby. Seriously. You say i am a "public" figure, but no more public than anyone else. You talk as though i am famous. i am just a guy who has posted some writings on the internet. By this standard, hundreds of millions of blog writers should expect to be slandered. Thankfully, most people do not see eye to eye with you, Dave and various gossipy members of the hardcore scene on this matter.



As I said, I am not going to get into the Peter issue, as i've been there done that. Frankly I think this whole issue has been blown out of proportion, and I really believe if you hadn't tried to drudge up all sorts of shit about Peter, B.J., J.C. etc. and stuck to the issue at hand without threatening anyone David would have apologized for his off handed comment a while ago. As personal as you may have taken the comment, by blowing it out of proportion and exaggerating the issue at hand you made this much harder than it had to be. If you had just said that you A. never made such a statement about your children and B. were very disappointed and saddened by such a comment stating otherwise than an apology would have been made in haste. Instead this has turned into a multi-page internet flame war. Shit, you and David used to be friends back in the day. One of you has to be mature and apologize first. As much as you feel that you may have been attacked first (and that is probably fair) you still said things, and took this thread in a direction it did not need to go. So be the bigger person and apologize for the things you did wrong, and I am sure David will too.

_________________
unity within the "scene" is a contradiction. i don't unite with what i despise. don't go along, i won't get along in this united scene dream. i won't pretend to care and waste my time, waste my time on you.

http://www.myspace.com/xveganjihadx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
Dave attacked me. It is not my responsibility to coddle him or to hold my tongue. You said people go after him because he calls them on their bullshit. Please respect that i am calling him on what i see as his. He said he would apologize if i rejected the claim. i am just asking him to make good on what he promised (noticing that he did not apologize even long BEFORE these related issues where raised).

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:18 am
Posts: 31
We can talk into one direction or the other. We can revert to name calling, physical threats or whatever. All of this just doesn't change the valid points already made. Hey, these just don't fade away my friend!! How is someone here supposed to take you Micah seriously considering:

- On your webpage you still claim, you have had FBI helicopters monitoring you and your family when going grocery shopping. Not bicycles, not cars, not vans, no it was helicopters. Apparently luckily for the helicopter roating above the grocery store, you got out of the store in time before the fuel ran out so the helicopter could continue following you also after leaving the store. Either, you write this bullshit for marketing reasons in order to sell your book, in this case intentionally representing lies to potential customers, or you really believe in it, than you are delusional.

- You still sell the "proof of gods existence" for $6.99 on your webpage. This is not self irony but serious. So again are you either intending to defraud people or you are delusional to believe that you have managed to proof what no other individual on this earth has managed to do. I personally doubt that you can be that delusional when seeing the very low quality of the text.

- You post on your new dawn forum regarding Nazi Ufos, Ghost stories, freemasons, CIA conspiracies and many other topics that are very amusing to look at. I assume this is what you call mainstream, right?

- You now have drug ramblings also on your myspace page, wow hadn't seen those before, very fancy! Of course, this is not a reason per se not to take you seriously however when reading your past articles on Taliyah, this change in mind in fact really is quite amusing, you have to admit that.

- The Taliyah buzzword bingo is still available for anyone to see via archive.org, looks like the deeply concerned FBI accidently forgot to remove this extremely valuable information resource for future revolutionaries after having made "deals" with you. There is a great interview with you (as "Isa Adam Naziri") one might also want to look at there.

All the other funny shit, as your praise of the Unabomber, your paranoia of being constantly tracked by intelligence (who are likely laughing their asses of) not even mentioned. So if you have that kind of shit lined up against you, it really might be better to just smoke another one of your joints and silently fade away. There is not much to be won here - however, as you do not care about this subculture, this all doesn't really matter to you, right? So no need for hard feelings, it's really not even personal, it only is just so incredibly ridiculous :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
Miner are you even relevant to this discussion?

Yes, check out my mySpace and you can find out a lot about me: http://www.myspace.com/mikhayah

Check out New Dawn Publications to find out about a collaborative publishing project between me and some friends: http://newdawn.dharmahost.biz

Ever heard of X-Files, Miner? Ever heard of Fringe? Normal folks are fascinated by this shit. The History Channel, Discovery Channel, etc always run specials on the sort of topics you commented on. This is precisely because people tune in and they make money off of advertising. If people didn't watch, advertisers wouldn't pay. This is all beside the fact that your points are 100% irrelevant to this current discussion. i don't care if you think my views on any matter are cool, stupid or crazy. That's not what this discussion is about.

Beyond that, you're still a coward for not identifying yourself and admitting that you've never met my family and that you made up all this CIA nonsense. The fact that you didn't even comment on my rebuttal to these points illustrates how badly you got dogged.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:14 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:44 pm
Posts: 368
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:23 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:55 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Portland, OR
1. Nothing wrong with me

2. Nothing wrong with me

3. Nothing wrong with me

4. Nothing wrong with me

1. Something's got to give

2. Something's got to give

3. Something's got to give
Now!!!(you can't hurt me!)
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the floor
Let the bodies hit the
Floor!!!

_________________
http://xstuckinthepastx.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/unrestrainedpdx
Image
http://www.surrenderthesoul.com/thedeadunknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Portland, OR
Ive got to say that post by miner was classical comical genius. Frankly I don't even think the bashing of Micah was even warranted at that point but you still get points for making me laugh so hard that I nearly pissed my pants. On the same note, this thread has become devolved into complete utter non sense. I think Micah has a point about all this, even if his methods of dealing with it were not the most productive.

_________________
unity within the "scene" is a contradiction. i don't unite with what i despise. don't go along, i won't get along in this united scene dream. i won't pretend to care and waste my time, waste my time on you.

http://www.myspace.com/xveganjihadx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
Yes, if Miner wants to make a thread cracking jokes then he's got no objections from me about this. There is no doubt that the reason he is hiding his identity is because he knows i could dish it out just as bad about whoever he is. i do understand, however, that the Vegan Straight Edge scene tends to have lower than normal expectations when it comes to "comedic genius" (or personal honor), so i will yield regarding this.

In any event, you seem to get my point, and really there seems to be no debate that Dave was out of line. By his own standards he owes me an apology. This, along with clearing my name (for those who care about facts and not just what's "fun" to imagine a person says or thinks), was the only reason i spent time on this thread.

Let Dave know that i'll take that apology whenever his busy activism schedule has a momentary lull.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:25 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 2188
Location: Broad x Ripple
Micah wrote:
Yes, if Miner wants to make a thread cracking jokes then he's got no objections from me about this. There is no doubt that the reason he is hiding his identity is because he knows i could dish it out just as bad about whoever he is. i do understand, however, that the Vegan Straight Edge scene tends to have lower than normal expectations when it comes to "comedic genius" (or personal honor), so i will yield regarding this.

In any event, you seem to get my point, and really there seems to be no debate that Dave was out of line. By his own standards he owes me an apology. This, along with clearing my name (for those who care about facts and not just what's "fun" to imagine a person says or thinks), was the only reason i spent time on this thread.

Let Dave know that i'll take that apology whenever his busy activism schedule has a momentary lull.


there is a point of diminishing returns at work here, you're probably not going to get an apology, i think we all know that. this became a waste of energy for everyone involved a while ago.

i think most of the vsxe people i know are pretty funny.
don't know what the whole "personal honor" thing is about, probably keep that at the dojo or something.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
Yes Kurt but you are vegan straight edge. How many non vegan straight edge people find vegan straight edge humor funny?

"Personal honor," in the context of my post, means that the vegan straight edge scene is notorious for people talking shit then cowering, hiding behind computer screens and otherwise expecting people to react in ways that no one else in the world reacts to similar shit talking.

Honor means you don't talk shit that you can't back up, either with verification of your claims or with the courage to face off over it. Backbiting is dishonorable, and talking about someone one way when you are on the Internet and a totally different way in person (as happens EVERY time i have seen Dave face to face and he suddenly apologizes for the last round of slander), is a matter of lacking honor.

To the rest of society it is the most ridiculous thing imaginable that so many kids talk about shooting people, killing people who abuse animals, bathing in their blood, blah, blah, blah and then are so terrified of fighting and confrontation. While that is only peripherally an issue of honor (you shouldn't talk about violence if you are so afraid of engaging in it in real life), it is dishonorable to bring things to a normal human point of physical conflict and then cower from the consequences or hide behind a veil of some newly found pacifism.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:02 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:44 pm
Posts: 368
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
e.g. Dave saying: "You know what they say rat, you can't eat meat with a broken jaw. :)"

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2415

Joking or not, Dave is talking about inflicting violence on someone who never attacked him. Don't hold me to a different standard than you hold yourselves.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Portland, OR
Micah wrote:
e.g. Dave saying: "You know what they say rat, you can't eat meat with a broken jaw. :)"

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2415

Joking or not, Dave is talking about inflicting violence on someone who never attacked him. Don't hold me to a different standard than you hold yourselves.



Now this is just taking stuff overboard. I mean really, I am not sure if you realize this but you both used to be hardline, comments like that are hardly considered overboard.

I do think that David did some things wrong in this situation. However, so did you and until you realize and acknowledge that, nothing will happen.

_________________
unity within the "scene" is a contradiction. i don't unite with what i despise. don't go along, i won't get along in this united scene dream. i won't pretend to care and waste my time, waste my time on you.

http://www.myspace.com/xveganjihadx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:18 am
Posts: 175
David_Agranoff wrote:
I don't assume everyone likes me.


i like you :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:18 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 2188
Location: Broad x Ripple
Micah wrote:
Yes Kurt but you are vegan straight edge. How many non vegan straight edge people find vegan straight edge humor funny?

"Personal honor," in the context of my post, means that the vegan straight edge scene is notorious for people talking shit then cowering, hiding behind computer screens and otherwise expecting people to react in ways that no one else in the world reacts to similar shit talking.

Honor means you don't talk shit that you can't back up, either with verification of your claims or with the courage to face off over it. Backbiting is dishonorable, and talking about someone one way when you are on the Internet and a totally different way in person (as happens EVERY time i have seen Dave face to face and he suddenly apologizes for the last round of slander), is a matter of lacking honor.

To the rest of society it is the most ridiculous thing imaginable that so many kids talk about shooting people, killing people who abuse animals, bathing in their blood, blah, blah, blah and then are so terrified of fighting and confrontation. While that is only peripherally an issue of honor (you shouldn't talk about violence if you are so afraid of engaging in it in real life), it is dishonorable to bring things to a normal human point of physical conflict and then cower from the consequences or hide behind a veil of some newly found pacifism.


it's a message board.
on the internet.

i don't really know about any specific "vegan straight edge humor" i just like funny shit.

you know, people probably say, or have said way worse things about me on numerous occasions, i just don't give a shit. i let my relationships and interactions with others speak for themselves, for good or bad.

people can talk about whatever they want, just because EXC writes a song about violence (in some context) doesn't mean it is critical for them to see violence as a useful tool in all contexts, or that any band (or individual) that uses violent imagery must uphold it in reality. that is a logical fallacy.

anyway, i'm over it.
i just wish you two would be over it as well. eventually i'll get just as tired of this thread and close it down too if this keeps up.

xvx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:18 am
Posts: 31
Hahaha, Micah you really make it too easy for me my friend. Shall we examine your logic a little closer?

So I summarized a couple of your amusing claims and guess what, you did not object. Of course you did not object, as your proof of god's existence is still for sale, helicopters are still flying and the nazi ufos are still combatting the antichrist in your universe. There is nothing that you can argue against, all I did was summarize what you published by yourself - this can be validated by anyone who cares to. So upto this point, there really is nothing to discuss, there are not even two contradicting opinions. There is yours and there is me repeating it.

However, you have realized that your writings make you look like a complete ass on vsxe forums - which xcatalystx is. And in order to not appear as such and to feed your ego, you felt the need to counter attack. You just have a slight bit of a problem...there is nothing to counterattack. It's just the summary of your own claims, all still up on the web for anyone to see. So what do you do? You desperrately try to play the anonymity card to distract hahaha.

So let me join your game. Let's pretend for now my name is John Augusta, or maybe it's Nilesh Patel. Does this change anything about the Nazi Ufos? Does it change your public drug ramblings? Does it make the antichrist appear even sooner? Does your proof of god's existence become now more valuable? Does my name maybe change the number of helicopters following you when going grocery shopping??

No, it does not change anything at all, so what additional value would my name have for this discussion? Well, too bad you answered it by yourself: "because he knows i could dish it out just as bad about whoever he is". Thank you Micah for stating the obvious!! You whine about my anonymity not because this would change any of the points made in this thread, but because you want to distract from your bullshit. You want to dig up any stories about me as you did on others on this board. But my friend, this here is about you, so either you refute what has been said or you don't. And hahaha, that's the funny part, as you know very well, you can't refute it, as my posts are just a summary of the crap you have written all by yourself!!

Oh boy, you still know how to make me laugh after all these years, let's hope none of your biogenesis customers find this thread, they will want their money back :) Enough time wasted on Micah...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:39 pm
Posts: 167
i'd like to see this entire issue to be ended by Kurt. i have to admit it was interesting at some stage but it became embarrassingly pointless. Micah had his own reasons to get reg. on this board and post whatever he felt like to defend himself. i have no problems with what he did. i guess we all fully understand that Micah vs Dave is unsolvable issue.

miner, no offence dude, but introduce yourself before demanding anything from anyone. it's not so much of an issue really but gaves you a bit of reliability. at least in my own eyes. plus, clearly you do have a problem with Micah so no matter what this guy is going to say YOU WILL find another reason to strike back. this debate is way TOO personal.

_________________
______________________________
http://www.theessencehc.com
http://www.inherithc.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:43 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:12 pm
Posts: 1246
im just gonna say this before i fall asleep.
i didnt even know you and sean werent budies, and i dont care.

and for wanting an apology, who gives a fuck? surely youre grown up and big enough to not have to worry about people talking shit about you?
get over it.

Micah wrote:
Dave attacked me. It is not my responsibility to coddle him or to hold my tongue. You said people go after him because he calls them on their bullshit. Please respect that i am calling him on what i see as his. He said he would apologize if i rejected the claim. i am just asking him to make good on what he promised (noticing that he did not apologize even long BEFORE these related issues where raised).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
Exactly.

1. Miner, your name IS important, it is proves my point about the prevalent lack of honor in the Vegan Straight Edge scene. You exemplify this perfectly.

2. i HOPE Biogenesis customers and potential customers find this thread. i've had orders directly from this thread in the past day. Thank you and Dave for the advertising. Do you think it is any coincidence that i uploaded a picture and linked to my mySpace? i'm not hiding anything kiddo.

3. If you want to have an argument about Shamanistic uses of plants in conjunction with meditation then let's have that as a separate issue.

4. Most of the country believes in UFOs. Belgium's government publicly admits there are UFOs. Britian released their files on it... and oh yeah, sorry to bring this to your attention but my father-in-law was an agent with Air Force Intel for over two decades. Naturally, you'll doubt this like everything else; because your life is utterly mundane (so any one with anything particularly interesting to say sounds incredible to you).

5. FOIA me kiddo. It's a simple matter. The files are there for anyone to see on me. Many people have been confronted by the FBI about me and can confirm the huge investigation that was centered around me: Sean Muttaqi, Aaron Hunsaker, are just a couple who are pretty easy for you (or anyone here), to track down for verification. Of course, i suggest you read the full report from the FOIA file. Otherwise, stop embarrassing yourself and proving my point about Vegan Straight Edge kids statistically lacking honor... or don't. Either way is cool with me.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
seitan wrote:
im just gonna say this before i fall asleep.
i didnt even know you and sean werent budies, and i dont care.

and for wanting an apology, who gives a fuck? surely youre grown up and big enough to not have to worry about people talking shit about you?
get over it.

Micah wrote:
Dave attacked me. It is not my responsibility to coddle him or to hold my tongue. You said people go after him because he calls them on their bullshit. Please respect that i am calling him on what i see as his. He said he would apologize if i rejected the claim. i am just asking him to make good on what he promised (noticing that he did not apologize even long BEFORE these related issues where raised).


Sean and i were friends since 1995. Visited him with Chip (from various bands) and Carl from MRR back in 1996. In 1999 we got back in touch after he initiated contact with me after a bit of time i was underground, working at P&G's MVL facility, training with SWAT guys, etc.

In 2000, after my first son was born he said he would hire me to work for Uprising, but things didn't go well and we ended up painting houses together for half a year, under his dad. Then i moved back to Ohio and worked designing for a corporation until after 3 years the FBI came and i was fired (late 2003).

In 2004 i moved back out there, there was some talk of working for Uprising once it sold to some big company, but i didn't take the offer seriously and was content just to hang out and train with Sean while living off of my 401K and severance package.

In the Summer of 2004 i had big conflict with Sean and wouldn't talk to him for a month or so. After a while we made up until early 2005 when it got really heated. Before that we talked every day. Both his wife and mine jokingly referred to us as "girlfriends," because we literally talked on the phone every day, whether i was in California or Ohio.

That's just to clear it up because i know a lot of history gets revised after people fall out. Apparently this is the case if you didn't even know he and i were tight.

As for an apology Rat, i only asked for one from Dave in relation to the dragging my children into it. This was, in part, because he said he would (again with the lack of honor thing). i know you all don't have children, so it is understandably difficult for you to understand. Ask Sean if he would be violently angry if Dave had brought his daughters - or how he views them - into the discussion? It is a normal human reaction. Do not expect more from me than anyone else would do in my position. Certainly don't expect more from me when you have no frame of reference for understanding my perspective (not being a parent yourself).

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Portland, OR
Micah wrote:
seitan wrote:
im just gonna say this before i fall asleep.
i didnt even know you and sean werent budies, and i dont care.

and for wanting an apology, who gives a fuck? surely youre grown up and big enough to not have to worry about people talking shit about you?
get over it.

Micah wrote:
Dave attacked me. It is not my responsibility to coddle him or to hold my tongue. You said people go after him because he calls them on their bullshit. Please respect that i am calling him on what i see as his. He said he would apologize if i rejected the claim. i am just asking him to make good on what he promised (noticing that he did not apologize even long BEFORE these related issues where raised).


Sean and i were friends since 1995. Visited him with Chip (from various bands) and Carl from MRR back in 1996. In 1999 we got back in touch after he initiated contact with me after a bit of time i was underground, working at P&G's MVL facility, training with SWAT guys, etc.

In 2000, after my first son was born he said he would hire me to work for Uprising, but things didn't go well and we ended up painting houses together for half a year, under his dad. Then i moved back to Ohio and worked designing for a corporation until after 3 years the FBI came and i was fired (late 2003).

In 2004 i moved back out there, there was some talk of working for Uprising once it sold to some big company, but i didn't take the offer seriously and was content just to hang out and train with Sean while living off of my 401K and severance package.

In the Summer of 2004 i had big conflict with Sean and wouldn't talk to him for a month or so. After a while we made up until early 2005 when it got really heated. Before that we talked every day. Both his wife and mine jokingly referred to us as "girlfriends," because we literally talked on the phone every day, whether i was in California or Ohio.

That's just to clear it up because i know a lot of history gets revised after people fall out. Apparently this is the case if you didn't even know he and i were tight.



So let me get this straight, David makes a joke about some crazy shit you may or may not have said about your kids, and you get to start creating doubt about whether David is a snitch who has possibly (but youre not saying he did.... right) worked with the FBI. You say David does COINTELPRO's work for them, dude regardless of Davids off handed comment you need to apologize for that. You can be pissed at David, you can talk shit back to him, but that shit about the FBI is off fucking limits. I know you don't actually think that, you are just trying to further damage his reputation because you are pissed. Be pissed, talk shit, kick his ass for the comment about your kids. IMO all those things are an exaggeration, but none the less somewhat acceptable. Further trying to damage someones reputation as an activist, by insinuating they may or may not have worked with the FBI is just FUCKED. This is why to me, you owe David an apology first.

_________________
unity within the "scene" is a contradiction. i don't unite with what i despise. don't go along, i won't get along in this united scene dream. i won't pretend to care and waste my time, waste my time on you.

http://www.myspace.com/xveganjihadx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 am
Posts: 142
No dude, Peter Young started that conversation. i have had those thoughts about Dave (and know many others who have as well), for many years. This recent instance only confirmed it.

But yes, it is AT LEAST as much my right to damage his reputation (as a "public figure," remember?) as it is his right to damage mine. Nevertheless, read my comments to Peter Young's post. i never claimed Dave was directly working for the FBI, just that he facilitates their agenda by spreading discord and harboring snitches. Let's at least keep the accusations straight.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/sanszu


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:06 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 2188
Location: Broad x Ripple
Micah wrote:
4. Most of the country believes in UFOs.


not really much of an endorsement.
most of the country believes a lot of things that are factually incorrect.

not to mention that UFO's are just a fact - there are indeed flying objects that are "unidentified" - that doesn't mean they are little green aliens or Abrahamic angels.

either way, consider this the end of the thread, it's not going anywhere and nothing has been, or will be, resolved.
everyone should feel free to take your discussions to a personal arena (like PMs) where they belong.

xvx


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by Vegan Straight Edge