Catalyst Records

Catalyst Records Discussion Forum
It is currently Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:02 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 220
Surprised this hasn't been spoken on. Pretty big deal in my eyes. I'm pro-choice but if anyone is surprised by this ... not sure what to tell them. People who believe in god are fucking insane. The whole incident, however, is kind of inspiring me to become an escort for women on their way to get their abortions. I more than likely won't actually do it because I am sure that the escorts have to do their job despite the conditions the abortion are under (I don't agree with all abortions) and I wouldn't be down with that. I just kind of want to square off against the lunatic right wingers. Sounds fun to me.

I respect the doctor who went down for his cause, but can't say I sympathize with him ... if that makes sense. He knew what he was getting into and kept with it ... so respect to him, but at the same time ... you reap what you sow.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 220
Essentially, I'm just down with people who believe in things strongly enough to go the whole ten yards with it ... despite my personal outlook on the subject. I think its interesting whenever two extremes go head to head.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:27 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 269
Location: The Netherlands
Path To Misery wrote:
Surprised this hasn't been spoken on.

Didn't hear about this, details?

* edit: nevermind, googled it. Some people are nuts :( *


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:03 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:27 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: UK
I don't agree with abortion, I am fully aware there are horrible situations. Underage girls getting pregnant, rape victims etc etc. However, the unborn child has no knowledge of how she / she came about and could be sent to foster care if the mtoher could not bear to look at it, destroying innocent life is not right in that situation. I don't agree with abortion. In saying that, no-one i know has been raped, it could change my views, i may be being naive but i am thinking about the life inside the female instead of her directly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:19 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:55 pm
Posts: 599
Location: Portland, OR
As far as I'm concerned, the man was a fucking hero. He had to live in a gated community with extra security, be driven to work everyday in an armored vehicle, his clinic was bombed, he got shot in both arms and STILL went to work the next day. Frankly, I can think of a lot of people that should have been aborted, and in cases like this, I'd like to see his murderer be post birth aborted.

_________________
http://xstuckinthepastx.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/unrestrainedpdx
Image
http://www.surrenderthesoul.com/thedeadunknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:29 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:20 am
Posts: 300
XjustinX wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the man was a fucking hero. He had to live in a gated community with extra security, be driven to work everyday in an armored vehicle, his clinic was bombed, he got shot in both arms and STILL went to work the next day. Frankly, I can think of a lot of people that should have been aborted, and in cases like this, I'd like to see his murderer be post birth aborted.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:05 pm
Posts: 9
vcharliev wrote:
I don't agree with abortion, I am fully aware there are horrible situations. Underage girls getting pregnant, rape victims etc etc. However, the unborn child has no knowledge of how she / she came about and could be sent to foster care if the mtoher could not bear to look at it, destroying innocent life is not right in that situation. I don't agree with abortion. In saying that, no-one i know has been raped, it could change my views, i may be being naive but i am thinking about the life inside the female instead of her directly.

considering 1 out of every 3 women have been sexually assaulted, there's a good chance you do know someone, they just haven't come out and said anything about it. the unborn fetus is unable has no knowledge, period. it is reliant on the mother to survive, it is created by the mother, therefore it is apart of the mother. what she chooses to do with her own body should be her decision and not up to anyone else. its not as easy as dropping the child off in a foster home. a lot of times women are fearful of continuing the pregnancy due to family or community views on the case. so if a woman is forced to wait and have a child which she doesn't want, the possibilities of what would happen to her are endless. maybe she'll get thrown out of her house? maybe she'll be beaten or killed? and to the argument of "she shouldn't be having sex then", why should someone else's ideologies dictate how a woman chooses to live her life?

this man risked everything to help women live a better life. as justin previously said, he's a hero, in my eyes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:27 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 269
Location: The Netherlands
XjustinX wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the man was a fucking hero.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:20 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 483
Location: NJ
a few thoughts on this:

1. there is no such thing as an "abortion doctor". there is no "doctor of abortions". for example a doctor that performs a triple bypass is not a "triple bypass doctor". there are women's healthcare doctors who perform many services, one of them being abortion. i think it's ridiculous how the media would come up with a phrase like "abortion doctor" to paint a picture of this guy just sitting around doing abortions all day. it's quite ridiculous and helps feed into the stereotype.


2. let me get this straight: a woman walks into a cafe and performs a suicide bombing in the name of fundamentalist islam and our country calls it terrorism. an animal testing lab is destroyed and (under the AETA) our country calls it terrosim. but....., a man shoots someone in cold blood in the name of christian fundamentalism (not to mention the clinic being vandalized and it'd medical professionals being harassed, shot at, etc) and for some reason the media/government will not call this terrorism. i'm stumped.

_________________
http://capacitiesnj.bandcamp.com
http://lesslife.bandcamp.com
http://onepathforme.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:54 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 1566
Location: PDX (Indiana O.G.)
I have some mixed feelings.

Some of the left wing coverage, epsically Rachel Maddow on MSNBC has bothered me a bit. First off at this point in my life I believe less humans the better. I think both pro-life and pro-choice movements are simplistic and narrow.

I think it's too bad this guy was killed but AJ is right he knew what he was doing, he knew the risk. For that he is is a hero to Justin and that is also a valid opinion. However I've been hearing some on the left suddenly wanting to call the "pro-life" movement ( we know they far from it) Terrorists.

They way the left has reacted to this killing is not far removed from how the vivisection industry reacts towards the SHAC 7. So even though I not a fan of abortion providers being shot I not a fan of the left wing reaction either.

I was ten years ago I was militantly pro-life, so I geuss I have some empathy for those concerns. Don't think that is how they should fight it but at same time...think about from their point of view. they believe in their hearts that it is murder.

Talking about Animal Liberation I always say if it's murder in my head I have to act as though it is murder in my heart. So I don't think it's black and white. I don't like the idea of people passively accepting something they see as so violent of an act.

all that being said. I don't care anymore about unborn humans, most of which would be raised in conditions that will only continue a cycle of shitty people. I think it is one controlled violent act that in the end will prevent a lifetime of violent acts and consumption. I prefer people simply not breed, but none the less less people the better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:59 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 2188
Location: Broad x Ripple
ifp wrote:
1. there is no such thing as an "abortion doctor". there is no "doctor of abortions". for example a doctor that performs a triple bypass is not a "triple bypass doctor". there are women's healthcare doctors who perform many services, one of them being abortion. i think it's ridiculous how the media would come up with a phrase like "abortion doctor" to paint a picture of this guy just sitting around doing abortions all day. it's quite ridiculous and helps feed into the stereotype.


good point.

although at the same time the AR community has no problems calling scientists that perform vivisection "vivisectionists", etc.

not that i think the two issues are related, but i wonder if the tactics are similar.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:11 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:03 am
Posts: 269
Location: The Netherlands
ifp wrote:
a few thoughts on this:

1. there is no such thing as an "abortion doctor".

Yes there is. Maybe not in the US, but there is over here in the Netherlands. There is even a Dutch Association of Abortion Doctors, see http://www.ngva.net/english.html.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:54 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:12 pm
Posts: 1246
XemonerdX wrote:
ifp wrote:
a few thoughts on this:

1. there is no such thing as an "abortion doctor".

Yes there is. Maybe not in the US, but there is over here in the Netherlands. There is even a Dutch Association of Abortion Doctors, see http://www.ngva.net/english.html.


but didnt you know, the usa is the world?

im pretty much in agreeance with david. i dont like the actual act of abortion, but i dislike the human species more.

as to this guy being a hero, im not getting that.

"this man risked everything to help women live a better life" hmm, really? or did he just make a decent wage from it? him carrying out abortions doesnt equate to giving women better lives.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:58 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:12 pm
Posts: 1246
november first wrote:
considering 1 out of every 3 women have been sexually assaulted, there's a good chance you do know someone, they just haven't come out and said anything about it. the unborn fetus is unable has no knowledge, period. it is reliant on the mother to survive, it is created by the mother, therefore it is apart of the mother. what she chooses to do with her own body should be her decision and not up to anyone else. its not as easy as dropping the child off in a foster home.


a new born can not survive outside the womb without help either, so does that give the mother freedom to do what she wants to it? i think not.

please tell me, you say its got nothing to do with anybody else what the woman does with her body ( abortion). what if SHE wants to keep the child and the father doesnt? does she just let him walk away, or is he all of a sudden responsible for her prediciment when he wasnt when she didnt want the pregnancy to go the distance?
pregnancy involves two people.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:06 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:51 pm
Posts: 2188
Location: Broad x Ripple
seitan wrote:
XemonerdX wrote:
ifp wrote:
a few thoughts on this:

1. there is no such thing as an "abortion doctor".

Yes there is. Maybe not in the US, but there is over here in the Netherlands. There is even a Dutch Association of Abortion Doctors, see http://www.ngva.net/english.html.


but didnt you know, the usa is the world?

im pretty much in agreeance with david. i dont like the actual act of abortion, but i dislike the human species more.

as to this guy being a hero, im not getting that.

"this man risked everything to help women live a better life" hmm, really? or did he just make a decent wage from it? him carrying out abortions doesnt equate to giving women better lives.


allowing women the CHOICE and the ability to make their own decisions on their own life choices gives women better lives. he could have been paid just as well, or better and not performed abortions, without the associated risks. i would guess that anyone willing to go through all of that felt some kind of obligation to perform a service for women that decided they needed it.

as for the USA part, it did occur in the US, and is really tied into the US laws and cultural ideas on abortion rights (including right wing religious fundamentalism). the context is important.

xvx


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 483
Location: NJ
seitan wrote:

but didnt you know, the usa is the world?



no reason to be sarcastic about it. the killing took place in the usa, (as kurt stated) i was speaking from that context of the laws and religious controversy surrounding the issue here.

great, there's a title of "abortion doctor" in the netherlands; i'm not sure how that invalidates the misuse of the term in the usa to justify a healthcare professional being killed. point is in the united states, where the killing took place, there is no such position or title, regardless of the media using the title "abortion doctor", nor would i believe that this guy sat around exclusively doing abortions all day.

i'm not speaking on issues of pro life or pro choice here, i have no desire to see people arguing over that for 100th time on this board..i'm simply pointing out the misuse of the term "abortion doctor" to describe this particular doctor's job.

_________________
http://capacitiesnj.bandcamp.com
http://lesslife.bandcamp.com
http://onepathforme.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:14 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:57 pm
Posts: 1566
Location: PDX (Indiana O.G.)
Under Bush there were no abortionists shot, back under a liberal and the shooting start up again. I think Kurt is right this is really A US issue, I mean abortionists don't get shot other places do they? maybe I'm wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:53 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 11:13 am
Posts: 291
Location: wesside
I heard about this last week. Funnily, I was in Italy this weekend and I met two SXE dudes. At one point, I couldn't prevent myself from asking one of the guys he was pro-life. It kinda made the conversation a bit awkward, and then I mentioned this killing in the US and then there was a really heavy silence :roll:

It's a shame that after so many years discussions still narrow down to stances that at the end of the day are completely irrelevant: the fact that a foetus don't survive outside of a women's body (what about the fact that it can or can't be sentient?), that it's a choice women do with their bodies (what about the body that is inside them?), that it's a "potential" life (what about if that doesn't matter?)...

I think things will all of a sudden become much clearer if we start talking about what *really* matters, which is sentience, nothing more, nothing less...

_________________
straight edge outta compton


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:17 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:04 pm
Posts: 825
Location: Bologna, Italy
where were you in italy?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:09 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 11:13 am
Posts: 291
Location: wesside
Torino ;)

I see you're from Bologna, I heard there was a HxC gig festival on saturday?

_________________
straight edge outta compton


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:12 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:04 pm
Posts: 825
Location: Bologna, Italy
chameleon wrote:
Torino ;)

I see you're from Bologna, I heard there was a HxC gig festival on saturday?


hah ok!. I asked the city so i could understand who you talked to ;)

actually i'm not living there now. Anyway yeah, there was a festival with terror headlining... big venue, high stage, barriers and security. Not my cup of tea :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:30 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:27 pm
Posts: 1281
Location: UK
David_Agranoff wrote:
abortionists don't get shot other places do they?


Unfortunately not, i joke.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:34 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:12 pm
Posts: 1246
kurt wrote:
allowing women the CHOICE and the ability to make their own decisions on their own life choices gives women better lives. he could have been paid just as well, or better and not performed abortions, without the associated risks. i would guess that anyone willing to go through all of that felt some kind of obligation to perform a service for women that decided they needed it.


im not debating choice. im questioning that this guy was risking "helping women to live a better life. many women will have an abortion and regret it, which could in turn give them a miserable life.

im NOT trying to argue abortion here, i really couldnt give a fuck either way.


kurt wrote:
as for the USA part, it did occur in the US, and is really tied into the US laws and cultural ideas on abortion rights (including right wing religious fundamentalism). the context is important.

xvx


maybe, but this IS the world wide web, and way too often ive seen americans talking without a thought that people live outside the us. you may find that hard to understand, being an american, and still living there. my wife is american and now sees just how americans can come across.
the poster should have said "in the us there is no such thing as an abortion doctor. as he didnt, it was reading that he was implying there is no such thing period.
again, not being an outsider, youll find that hard to accept.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:37 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:12 pm
Posts: 1246
ifp wrote:

no reason to be sarcastic about it. the killing took place in the usa, (as kurt stated) i was speaking from that context of the laws and religious controversy surrounding the issue here.

great, there's a title of "abortion doctor" in the netherlands; i'm not sure how that invalidates the misuse of the term in the usa to justify a healthcare professional being killed.



whos trying to justify his killing?

ifp wrote:
point is in the united states, where the killing took place, there is no such position or title, regardless of the media using the title "abortion doctor", nor would i believe that this guy sat around exclusively doing abortions all day.


thats better :-)




ifp wrote:
i'm not speaking on issues of pro life or pro choice here, i have no desire to see people arguing over that for 100th time on this board..i'm simply pointing out the misuse of the term "abortion doctor" to describe this particular doctor's job.


me neither, its really boring now! ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:03 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:02 am
Posts: 483
Location: NJ
rat - what i'm trying to say is that i've seen the media use words like "anti abortion activist" to describe the shooter (not a murder, not a terrorist, not a fanatic, etc). in the same reports i usually see the doctor referred to as an "abortion doctor" (not a women's healthcare professional). what i'm trying to present here is that the media is using these terms to express that there is some sort of gray area about whether or not what took place was right or wrong. no, they're not justifying it, but they're not calling it what it is (at least in terms of consistency in news reporting in the united states).

_________________
http://capacitiesnj.bandcamp.com
http://lesslife.bandcamp.com
http://onepathforme.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:37 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:12 pm
Posts: 1246
ifp wrote:
rat - what i'm trying to say is that i've seen the media use words like "anti abortion activist" to describe the shooter (not a murder, not a terrorist, not a fanatic, etc). in the same reports i usually see the doctor referred to as an "abortion doctor" (not a women's healthcare professional). what i'm trying to present here is that the media is using these terms to express that there is some sort of gray area about whether or not what took place was right or wrong. no, they're not justifying it, but they're not calling it what it is (at least in terms of consistency in news reporting in the united states).


yeah, abortion is such a big thing in america, i guess the media get carried away with it.
if you ask 100 people here in the uk how they feel about abortion, most will initially be silent while they think about it, as most people here dont even discuss it.

considering what goes on in the world, and in america, on a daily basis, abortion really is such a small concern, or at least it should be such a small concern.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:03 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:09 pm
Posts: 1247
i think the words assassinated and hero are too strong of words for this guy.





vsXe

_________________
"let the fires rain down,to end mankind's reign".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:44 pm 
Offline
i need some fresh air
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 11:13 am
Posts: 291
Location: wesside
XfortheworldX wrote:
chameleon wrote:
I see you're from Bologna, I heard there was a HxC gig festival on saturday?

actually i'm not living there now. Anyway yeah, there was a festival with terror headlining... big venue, high stage, barriers and security. Not my cup of tea :lol:

Yeah I met a girl that went there. She said it was horrible :lol:

_________________
straight edge outta compton


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:04 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:55 pm
Posts: 824
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
TraditionDiesHere wrote:
XjustinX wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, the man was a fucking hero. He had to live in a gated community with extra security, be driven to work everyday in an armored vehicle, his clinic was bombed, he got shot in both arms and STILL went to work the next day. Frankly, I can think of a lot of people that should have been aborted, and in cases like this, I'd like to see his murderer be post birth aborted.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:06 am 
Offline
i need some fresh air

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:46 am
Posts: 484
seitan wrote:
i dont like the actual act of abortion, but i dislike the human species more.


I like how rat's always rocking that positive outlook on life.

David_Agranoff wrote:
Under Bush there were no abortionists shot, back under a liberal and the shooting start up again.


sad but true. some of these wacko right wingers must be rather upset about not only the president being a democrat (clearly a traitor), but also a black democrat (clearly a communist traitor, who wants to take our guns, yada-yada-yada...). when your ground is slipping, there's often a feeling of urgency in the air. "something must be done", whether it's a shooting at a holocaust museum or an abortion clinic.

_________________
"You can't cut the throat of every cock-sucker whose character it would improve."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by Vegan Straight Edge