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 Post subject: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:08 pm 
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is anyone willing to scan the artwork?

someone is saying it's full of nazi symbols, i'd like to check that out


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Yeah I don't know if it's "full" of nazi symbols but I always thought the use of the Tottenkopf skull and bones on a t-shirt was well strange... go figure!!

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:40 pm 
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I think they liked Death in June a lot. They named their e.p. the same as one of DiJ's albums and the artwork has the same theme going on as well.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Yeah as well as the Totenkopf design ("Death's Head"-traditional military insignia most famously used by the SS), Tears of Gaia also used the Algiz rune, adopted by the Nazis for their insignia and literature. Both of these symbols are still in use today by contemporary neo-Nazi scum.
Both symbols have a history that goes back much further than their adoption by the Nazis, so perhaps it was an attempt to reclaim these symbols...but without an explanation to clarify that, it seems pretty stupid.
However it's more likely that they were just Death in June fans and wanted to use these symbols because they thought they looked cool when DiJ used them, as the Totenkopf used by TOG is just an expropriated Death in June Totenkopf logo.
The Algiz rune is a pre-Christian northern European symbol, so it could be used as an anti-christianity design, or as a reference or tribute to paganism...which advocates of a 'Natural Order' might be attracted to. But again, it's probably just a mixture of being DiJ fans and wanting to be a bit controversial.
I actually wondered if TOG ever even officially used the Totenkopf, as the only picture I've seen of it assossciated with them seems to be on a bootleg shirt? And were any symbols other than these used on this demo? Any ideas?
If anyone who knows the band could clear this up it would be interesting to know the score.
I don't think for a second that anyone who was in TOG had anything to do with Nazi politics, and I don't even necessarily have a problem with the expropriation of those symbols in certain contexts-but a bit of clarification is needed, as playing with that kind of imagery without putting it in context is kinda dumb.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:05 pm 
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There was a thread on this some time ago, try digging that up.

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:59 am 
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NihilCom wrote:
I don't think for a second that anyone who was in TOG had anything to do with Nazi politics, and I don't even necessarily have a problem with the expropriation of those symbols in certain contexts-but a bit of clarification is needed, as playing with that kind of imagery without putting it in context is kinda dumb.

Same thoughts here.
What's the score with the number "6" next to the Totenkopf on the t-shirt? Are you sure this was a bootleg?

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:21 am 
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I wrote them years ago when this was released. And immediately received their answer.

Quote:
If you are familiar with the Algiz rune then you know that it is a symbol for Protection and Life which we feel is very relevant as we are a militant vegan straight edge band. And if you took the time to look into the band's lyrics you would see that we are an anarchist band and do not put faith in any human political system and the only laws we respect are the unwaivering laws of nature. We are insulted that you would make such as assumption based on such a thin understanding of the band. Over half of the members of the band are not "white" as you call it and all of the members of the collective have been long running activists and have shaped and been apart of bands such as Inhumane Nature, Gather, Seven Generations, Resist and Exist, Burn It Down, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:48 am 
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I wonder what you wrote in the first place as the reply sounds pretty aggressive...

Anyway at the end of the day speaking about the unwaivering laws of nature is just as reactionary to me as anything else so... yeah whatever, definetly not my cup of tea :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:55 am 
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chameleon wrote:
NihilCom wrote:
I don't think for a second that anyone who was in TOG had anything to do with Nazi politics, and I don't even necessarily have a problem with the expropriation of those symbols in certain contexts-but a bit of clarification is needed, as playing with that kind of imagery without putting it in context is kinda dumb.

Same thoughts here.
What's the score with the number "6" next to the Totenkopf on the t-shirt? Are you sure this was a bootleg?


If it had the 6 by it, then it was from Death in June. The 6 represents the month.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:26 pm 
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thanks for the explanation!

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:46 pm 
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straight from the inside wrote:
I wrote them years ago when this was released. And immediately received their answer.

Quote:
If you are familiar with the Algiz rune then you know that it is a symbol for Protection and Life which we feel is very relevant as we are a militant vegan straight edge band. And if you took the time to look into the band's lyrics you would see that we are an anarchist band and do not put faith in any human political system and the only laws we respect are the unwaivering laws of nature. We are insulted that you would make such as assumption based on such a thin understanding of the band. Over half of the members of the band are not "white" as you call it and all of the members of the collective have been long running activists and have shaped and been apart of bands such as Inhumane Nature, Gather, Seven Generations, Resist and Exist, Burn It Down, etc.



Ha! They told you. Got a copy of what you wrote to them to start with to provoke that reaction?

"I don't like your artwork, nazi scum!"? ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:17 pm 
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could someone please post a scan of the demo? would like to see the artwork you are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:08 pm 
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vcharliev wrote:
"I don't like your artwork, nazi scum!"? ;-)


:lol:

But... at the end of the day if you're messing with fire... you gonna get burned! So unless you're expliciting disclaiming that the imagery doesn't endorse any of its negative conotations then the least of things is to realize that some people are gonna ask you wussup with that...

but yeah it'd be helpful to check out exactly what the score is...

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:19 pm 
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having known erik (singer of tog) personally, i can say that while he maintained that he was attempting to reclaim pagan symbolism and symbology, his obsession with nazi music and ideals and his nazi record collection make this claim highly dubious. i wouldn't say he was overtly racist, but i would say that other members of 7 gen and myself, as well as some members of tears of gaia and gather were all made fairly uncomfortable by his affinity for white supremacist ascetics. i dunno, judge the revitalization of pagan symbols however you see fit, but erik vanguard (now known as rick dachau, which is obviously also very sketchy) has certainly displayed over time that he has some very questionable ethics and behavior patterns.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:42 am 
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Haha there you go. Thanks for the comment Chris, I think that's nuff said.

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:32 am 
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i love this band


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:57 am 
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xchristopherx wrote:
but erik vanguard (now known as rick dachau, which is obviously also very sketchy) has certainly displayed over time that he has some very questionable ethics and behavior patterns.


whoa! when did that happen?


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:43 pm 
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chameleon wrote:
Haha there you go. Thanks for the comment Chris, I think that's nuff said.


thats it? because somebody who knew him said that, youre going to accept it?
thats dumb shit dude.
ive talked to erik many times and dont for one minute think he's a nazi or racist.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:45 pm 
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xchristopherx wrote:
having known erik (singer of tog) personally, i can say that while he maintained that he was attempting to reclaim pagan symbolism and symbology, his obsession with nazi music and ideals and his nazi record collection make this claim highly dubious. i wouldn't say he was overtly racist, but i would say that other members of 7 gen and myself, as well as some members of tears of gaia and gather were all made fairly uncomfortable by his affinity for white supremacist ascetics. i dunno, judge the revitalization of pagan symbols however you see fit, but erik vanguard (now known as rick dachau, which is obviously also very sketchy) has certainly displayed over time that he has some very questionable ethics and behavior patterns.


so, does this also mean that all the members of tog on this recording are nazis too?


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:13 pm 
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seitan wrote:
chameleon wrote:
Haha there you go. Thanks for the comment Chris, I think that's nuff said.


thats it? because somebody who knew him said that, youre going to accept it?
thats dumb shit dude.
ive talked to erik many times and dont for one minute think he's a nazi or racist.


i think if anyone that posts here knows/ knew Erik well it would be Chris. they were in a band together and toured together numerous times.

not saying that anyone should just take things for granted, but he seems like a fairly reliable source on this issue, more than myself, or someone who has talked to him many times.


also, he didn't claim he was racist or a Nazi (or even sympathetic) just that he had a history of questionable interest in that kind of thing.
xvx


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Rat, Chris didn't say for one minute he was "overtly" racist or a nazi either. Actually I think what Chris said was pretty clear.

From where I stand, though, I don't even like the whole vibe about this kinda stuff so all of that thrown together makes me not really want to hear much about this band anyway :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:02 am 
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xPeterx wrote:
could someone please post a scan of the demo? would like to see the artwork you are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:05 am 
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kurt wrote:
seitan wrote:
chameleon wrote:
Haha there you go. Thanks for the comment Chris, I think that's nuff said.


thats it? because somebody who knew him said that, youre going to accept it?
thats dumb shit dude.
ive talked to erik many times and dont for one minute think he's a nazi or racist.


i think if anyone that posts here knows/ knew Erik well it would be Chris. they were in a band together and toured together numerous times.

not saying that anyone should just take things for granted, but he seems like a fairly reliable source on this issue, more than myself, or someone who has talked to him many times.


also, he didn't claim he was racist or a Nazi (or even sympathetic) just that he had a history of questionable interest in that kind of thing.
xvx



why would you assume chris had no reason to be bias? that was my point. you cannot take just one persons word on a matter like this, just look at all the other shit erik has had to deal with due to what some one may have said.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:46 pm 
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seitan wrote:
why would you assume chris had no reason to be bias? that was my point. you cannot take just one persons word on a matter like this, just look at all the other shit erik has had to deal with due to what some one may have said.


so instead we should assume that he's making things up because he has problems with Erik?

i know Chris, i don't think he's shady, and i've spent a decent amount of time with him (and Erik) face to face. Add to that that Chris has spent years in Erik's company and I don't think it's out of line to take a little of the information he presents, it seems a little more reliable than someone who has talked on the phone with him a number of times.

as far as Erik's "other problems" there seemed to be quite a bit of evidence from a variety of people there.

not really that deep.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:26 am 
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Rat, aren't you overreacting a little bit though? Nobody seems to be out on a witch hunt.

I for myself, am just happy that I think some stuff is dodgy and I'm better off with this sort of stuff not being part of my life, and that's all, period. 10 years ago I saw some people go from being SHARP actively anti-fascist vegan sxe to listening to Death in June and Current 93 and other dark folk kind of things then starting to hang out with dodgy cryptic esoteric right wing boneheads, so this sort of stuff isn't new to me. I'm not explicitely saying this is what's happening here, I'm just saying that I personnally have a biais against some kind of stuff and I live my life better without that sort of vibe around me. So yeah whenever I see a totenkopf I tend not to appreciate it and look at it with suspiction.

Anyway, as I was saying, I have plenty of reasons for not liking most of what Tears of Gaia is about even without all the possibly NS-related ambituity, so it doesn't change anything for me...

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:58 am 
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seems even more sketchy after reading more about Death in June.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:29 pm 
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kurt wrote:
seitan wrote:
why would you assume chris had no reason to be bias? that was my point. you cannot take just one persons word on a matter like this, just look at all the other shit erik has had to deal with due to what some one may have said.


so instead we should assume that he's making things up because he has problems with Erik?

i know Chris, i don't think he's shady, and i've spent a decent amount of time with him (and Erik) face to face. Add to that that Chris has spent years in Erik's company and I don't think it's out of line to take a little of the information he presents, it seems a little more reliable than someone who has talked on the phone with him a number of times.

as far as Erik's "other problems" there seemed to be quite a bit of evidence from a variety of people there.

not really that deep.


assuming that was directed at me, i havent just talked to erik on the phone a few times. ive stayed at his house, hes stayed at mine.

all this was aimed at chameleons comment, how s/he seemed to be implying chris' word is final on this.
im not saying chris is "shady" or anything like that.


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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Chris's word is final for me, yeah, I'm not saying it would ultimately be final for everyone. Anyway what you're basically saying is that it's your word against his, right?

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:11 pm 
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I just happened to check out that totenkopf t-shirt picture on myspace and it's not there anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: tears of gaia demo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:54 pm 
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this dude's blog may help clear up a few things about TOG:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=182765368&blogId=267488461


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